*** Now talking in #fusebox *** Topic is 'fusebox.. it's a state of mind.' *** Set by mcknzm on Thu Jan 25 14:51:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v mcknzm i think so. *** firefox has joined #fusebox *** ChanServ sets mode: +o firefox erik, here's the .fla for that http://216.12.13.30/tools/specs/specs2.zip it's got a little cf code in it also awesome...thanks! *** FredS has joined #Fusebox *** firefox sets mode: +v FredS *** firefox sets mode: +v FredS *** ChanServ sets mode: +v FredS *** gabe has joined #fusebox *** firefox sets mode: +v gabe *** firefox sets mode: +v gabe *** ChanServ sets mode: +v gabe Gabe! :) thought you were going snowboarding what up. don don't you know, I'm down with the cause. he he let's give folks another 10 minutes or so Sorry to sound like a jerk, but I'm not on the Fusebox list. I heard there was a Fusebox chat. Were there any specific goals for this chat or just a general Q&A? ok, I have a quick question while we wait.... general q&a *** CF_Marc has joined #fusebox *** firefox sets mode: +v CF_Marc *** firefox sets mode: +v CF_Marc *** ChanServ sets mode: +v CF_Marc Admitedly, I haven't read the fusebox docs closely lately... but what is the preferred method for converting a single returned record from the database into an Attributes.colname format? a bunch of cfsets? ya, i guess so cfscript *** Ag78 is now known as ChrisM I have been doing this: cfscript is probably a little faster processing wise *** Target2323 has joined #fusebox *** firefox sets mode: +v Target2323 *** firefox sets mode: +v Target2323 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Target2323 why switch them to attributes? hi everyone is this going to be a fusebox 101 or a discussion on new stuff? well.. say i have a form to add a new user to a table... fusebox 101, and new discussion, it's a free for all, just focused on Fusebox I have a couple FB 101 questions, so I hope so the edit form had default values set with CFPARAM, and i reuse the same form to edit existing records we've got a couple big names here.... like me (steve), Craig Girard (webchain), and Gabe Roffman (gabe) ah that makes sense. those names aren't that big... now if you were from yugoslavia, then you'd have a big name have you seen the tag? sot he CFPARAMS set attributes.name = "" and then I convert the user's record to attributes as well hmmm what if i wrote them in caps? :) THAT WOULD HELP I GUESS no i don't think i have seen CF_reuseform... so how about some big new ideas from the big names http://www.fusebox.org/content/index.cfm?fuseaction=taggallery all of the examples in the book and docs cite using client vars....any probs doing it with session vars? cameron: look at that, i think it does exactly what you're trying to do cool thanks steve.. I'll check it out *** StanCox has joined #fusebox *** firefox sets mode: +v StanCox *** firefox sets mode: +v StanCox using session vars for what? *** ChanServ sets mode: +v StanCox hwello friends Anybody wanna dcc me a current copy (or type url) of the progress of the app_model idea gabe had going? to maintain state, wherever they appear in the examples *** Target2323 is now known as KenBeard I don't need to worry about clustering an intern type man got me on here progress? What progress. heh well I've broken it into an app_page (for layout), app_security (obvious), and app_pathvars If anybody wants a copy of my latest app, go to cfug.stampedenetwork.com and click on cool files. the cfug site code is available there *** Cragrat has joined #Fusebox *** firefox sets mode: +v Cragrat *** firefox sets mode: +v Cragrat *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Cragrat I agree that app_model might be too big as one file. It certainly could be broken into sets of files for the different types of vars you want to declare. go visit www.geocities.com/stancox2000/index.html for my hiring I made a tag for caching stuff in the application (or any other) scope, too, so you don't have to put caching routines in the files keeps 'em neat *** Cragrat has quit IRC (Quit: ) *** DavidNesbitt has joined #Fusebox Anybody else playing with the cf_fuseminder stuff? *** firefox sets mode: +v DavidNesbitt *** firefox sets mode: +v DavidNesbitt *** ChanServ sets mode: +v DavidNesbitt Shall we get started? I've looked at fuseminder, but I'm still searching for a good mind-mapping program i'm a friggin idiot, but I don't see cool files at cfug.stampedenetwork. cool files is a link on the menu on the left (not that it's required) Go, Steve maybe they're not cool enough? :) *** MoJo1 has joined #fusebox *** firefox sets mode: +v MoJo1 *** firefox sets mode: +v MoJo1 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v MoJo1 I'm using visual mind www.visual-mind.com, also a link on the links page on cfug.stampedenetwork.com let me take the floor for just a minute ... i hear mindmapper+ is good too ok :) I've looked at vis mind, mind mapper and VisiMap (which I kinda like) way back when Fusebox just got started... we used to chat sessions all the time *** Maladrone is now known as Maladryne * Maladryne is back - did i miss anything important? just to try and get a feeling for what the hell fusebox should be Greetz it took about a zillion conversations with a zillion people before we had a clear idea where fusebox should go *** Maladryne sets mode: +o mcknzm anyway, we haven't really done these chat sessions in a while and I think they were very helpful A zillion... isn't that like a kabillion in Canadian $? so what i'd like to do tonight for about an hour or so is just discuss some of the problems and solutions that people have had with fusebox *** mcknzm changes topic to 'Khmmm.. Quiet. Steve's speaking!' yes, it is :) so, let's do this... bang that gavel ./topic stancox I have a question then let's each quickly mention who we are (for real) and a quick project that we've done in Fusebox i'll start.... i'm Steve Nelson, I've done about a kabillion projects in Fusebox *** mcknzm changes topic to '#Now()#: Fusebox Q&A session' my current one is a Flash based Fusebox Specifications and Design tool (a kabillion is a zillion kabiliion in canadian) next firefox... go ahead Pass the gavel, Steve. guess he's not here. maladryne, go ahead Thanks. *** StanCox has joined #fusebox *** firefox sets mode: +v StanCox *** firefox sets mode: +v StanCox *** ChanServ sets mode: +v StanCox I'm Dave McKenna, I've done about 4 or 5 projects in Fusebox. *** mcknzm sets mode: +b *!*@204.17.50.113 * cameronc is Cameron Childress... have built several sites in a psudo-fusebox style... homesourcepc.com is one... * Timer 1 activated * Timer 1 halted The last one was for the swim team in my town. :-) *** StanCox was kicked by mcknzm (man.. get off this channel!) *** kcmarshall has joined #fusebox *** firefox sets mode: +v kcmarshall *** firefox sets mode: +v kcmarshall *** ChanServ sets mode: +v kcmarshall * Maladryne passes the gavel to mcknzm i'm Erki Esken.. from Estonia. done some content management systems using fusebox.. and two big auction sites. currently focusing on cool wizards and stuff for fusebox :) next. just speak up... anyone MArc FUnaro here *** FredS has quit IRC (Quit: ) Best known for my whitepaper and article on clustering and CF sessions built several sites with fusebox Gabe Roffman here. I've been doing Fusebox since before it was Fusebox. I guess maybe that doesn't count. I do everything in Fusebox but it's mainly your run of the mill ecommerce stuff. I'm Ken Beard from Tampa,FL and I just finished cfug.stampedenetwork.com to try and foster a fusebox/cf community in the tampa area. I'm currently converting my new company to fusebox. i'm Erikk Ross...i've worked on about 2 or 3 fusebox sites. i would really like to do some flash/fusebox stuff. I'm Chris Montgomery and although I've been watching the FB community for awhile, I'm just now building my first FB app...so I'm a FB virgin I'm David (of Ottawa Canada). I've built quite a few sites in Fusebox since 98. Probably about 15-20 sites all intranets (can't escape them). Only one or two big sites though. I've managed to coughed up the Fusebox virus on quite a few other developers here in Ottawa. I've done a little bit of everything CF related. Latest project, a proprietary Web Statistics Fusebox application. Kevin Marshall here. I've been working w/ FB for a couple years. Built several sites that way. *** MoJo1 has left #fusebox oh did we do a "I am " thing seems I missed it Anybody else? You're just in time.. your turn. Ill cook one up.. geimme a sec gabe, is craig still there? tell him to speak up, he's online I am Shane Johnson of Vancouver BC Canada, I a a junior developer at my company, officially not even a programmer but I have recently taught myself the fusebox way. Currently I am re-writing our intranet using fusebox excellent. now... does anyone have any immediate problems that they've run into with EVERY fusebox app? if so, let's see if we can solve those as a group. Steve Rasmussen in So Cal, doing CF for 2 years now oops... go ahead *** FredS has joined #Fusebox *** firefox sets mode: +v FredS *** firefox sets mode: +v FredS *** ChanServ sets mode: +v FredS YES. IIS/Stats Tracking Specifically what about IIS/Stats tracking? CF_Brownout so the problem is being able to track pages siince they all go through index.cfm? back, what did I miss? NM craig is on the phone in an important conversation. *** sT|Owned sets mode: +o Fusebox That's correct... I can provide some backround if you don't mind, for the 101 people... It's so quiet in this channel, the mice run... ~~ (,,鞍>牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋 ~~(,,鞍> 牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋牋 ~~(,,鞍> *** sT|Owned sets mode: +o gabe That's a really good point.. the marketing guys LOVE hit counts sorry bout that Here's the situation: IIS logs a stat called "URI" index.cfm gets lot of hits it is essentially everything after the "?" but most stats programs don't seem to use the URI information in the logs *** Fusebox changes topic to '#Now()#: Fusebox Q&A session, please state your name and what Fusebox apps you've worked on, when you join' SO... Webtrends does...i think it gets even worse when you use search-engine friendly URLs Create your own hit counter that duplicates the info that IIS collects, except you strip out the FUSEACTION into its own feild and track it that way. Split up the URL info as well (if it is static) because the extended URL doesn't even get written to the log file to be tracked I've never gotten search engine friendly url's working.. I tried like twice and they just plain didn't work.. 404 have you tried bypassing IIS logs and logging into a db? that's what i've been doing for a while. works fairly well for me. YES, but that's what I wanted to confirm with the fuesebox community... let me continue programs like LiveStats are simply GREAT -- they let the users/owners of the sites log in, and generate their own reports I'd hate to be reinventing that very round, smooth wheel Plus who among us has time to generate stats or write custom reports for our clients? Exactly. true. So I'm looking for "the answer"... but don't want to kill performace too *** beregoth has joined #fusebox *** ChanServ sets mode: +v beregoth *** GrokFusebox has joined #fusebox is putting them in a db a performance issue? *** ChanServ sets mode: +v GrokFusebox SQL Server with a sproc would probably be fine seems like it shouldn't be too hard to get it to work with webtrends or one of the major ones. the problems with the normal stats tools is they don't record form variables. that's what I'm looking for, I guess... and the reason doesn't seem like the query for stats would be too difficult if you get the url vars/form vars in a db so anytime you put a fuseaction in a form field it doesn't get logged by IIS that this is a fusebox issue is because we use one template to control the whole site. per topic: Jeff Peters, author of Fuseminder, Harness and such sorry to interrupt here, but has anyone turned on logging for this channel? *** Fusebox has quit IRC (Quit: ) heh I hope so; sorry I'm late. *** Fusebox has joined #fusebox *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Fusebox thought you guys might want to save that to put online or something Hmmm, maybe we should start a Fusebox WebStats Committee :-) Create a custom web stats program * firefox goes back to idling yeah, just what we need, a committee.. That's actually not a bad idea. I was thinking of doing the following: store the data in the database and then run a template once per day Sure a committe wonder if John F. would lead it that would write out a flat file that could be read by the stats programs and make it look like these fuseactions and such are separate pages *** beregoth has left #fusebox sure, that would work. * FredS *** webchain sets mode: +o FredS Great idea. most stats tools can read directly from the db then you could use the power of the stats programs and disable logging in IIS to recover some of the performance (if any) And simple, too. that's another option yes but they do not read anything other than the fields they are set up to read, i believe we need to "fool" these programs into doing what they do best perhaps by assigning a "page name" to each fuseaction only problem is that lots of stats programs then hypelink to the actual pages and that wouldn't work. But other than that... Hmmm, just take the Fusebox web data and force it into the IIS format and then writing that page name out to the flat log file that's a cool idea. and it's totally a fusebox solution too Most log analyzers couldn't care less about the live Web. and it ventures into another area discussed in the list *** Brad has joined #fusebox and that is *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Brad could fuseactions be stored in the database let's create an open source community-driven Fusebox app for this I for one normally wouldn't do so i've something we can start from. okay here, here! may i head that up? why would you store fuseactions in the db? hold on a sec. i'll zip up the code that i have yes! marc, you're in charge baby! I think I can create a file in the format outputted by IIS but I can investigate the three main formats IIS supports cool MArc.. all you should need is the path to the index.cfm and the fuseaction you would store the fuseactions in the database to associate each fuseaction with a "stats page", so that What about non-IIS web servers? when the template ran maybe an additional column for random other URL or form data you might want to log it would know what "static page" to write out to the flat file *** sT|Owned sets mode: +o Fusebox we should manage it through www.sourceforge.com Doesn't matter, Mal--the tag would write the log for later analysis *** Fusebox changes topic to '#Now()#: Fusebox Q&A session, please state your name and what Fusebox apps you've worked on, when you join, currently talking about web stats and Fusebox' * FredS *** Fusebox sets mode: +o FredS Yeah, seems you would want to batch that lookup instead of doing it real time. If you stored fuseactions in the db, could you use them with permissions (ie certain users have permission to access certain fuseactions) I don't have any expertise in other web servers BUT: NOTE: also consider W3C log format suggestions: http://www.w3.org/TR/WD-logfile if written properly, the app would support "plug ins" for different log file parsing brad, yes, steve wrote about that in the book a fusebox app for analysing the log could be written too... would take a great deal of work to get it up to par with something like webtreands, but you could use the database data for live usage monitoring pulling the data from the database daily, and using the chosen parser based on the format chosen. er.. analying the db i mean I think plugging in separate parsers would be cool it would support just about any stats package there are some stats i don't know how to collect though... like "time taken" ummm webchain, where in the book? page? I don't seem to remember it. and some of the other checkboxes in "extended options" *** FredS has quit IRC (Quit: 哰C-Script]� - www.C-Script.com and irc.C-Script.com) session & next page request might give you time taken got it Time taken = one page call to next page call, for given session here is something to start with for the stats http://216.12.13.30/stats/stats.zip we could measure time taken dang... what is that variable name? *** firefox has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) does anyone have a codebase to start with? gettickcount() cftoken/now? put that in the application.cfm and another in the onrequestend.cfm and subtract to two my fusebox style is not up to snuff gettickcount would be a time taken to build the page not time taken by the user to read/use the page Anyway, ah. good point how do we proceed on this idea? somebody create a forum for it on fusebox.org You could always use timestamps for pagehits in conjunction with CFID/CFTOKEN pair to identify visit lengths let me explain what i've done so far, and then we can work from there we'll brainstorm ideas and upload the new code regularly that url i posted a minute ago does a couple things first... in your OnRequestEnd.cfm file you would call this act_page_logs.cfm file something like Max(hittime) - Min(hittime) WHERE CFID/CFTOKEN = #somevalue# what it does is store a bunch of variables in an application scoped query there's a little problem with onrequestend cflocation skips it then every X minutes that query would be dumped to the database and cleared out of memory. brad, sorry i guess its not in there, thought it was. ask steve about the STATS thing, that store fuseaction. *** FredS has joined #Fusebox *** ChanServ sets mode: +v FredS *** Retrieving #fusebox info... then queries could be run off the database, or the stats package could read directly from it *** firefox has joined #fusebox *** ChanServ sets mode: +o firefox brad, you could easily store the fusebox/fuseaction and assign access to users/grooups cool Instead of having the stats program read directly from the database, I'd write things out to flat files though *** gabe has quit IRC (Ping timeout) and then purge the table after the log file(s) are written i agree marc sure. or purge them after the report is generated I would think that having the stats package read from the DB would be much faster right i think so too it would be faster, until the tables got so large remember, you are tracking every single hit marc, did you see the .zip file i posted? yes, i downloaded it and am opening now cool what i am thinking is I like the export to file idea, because you could leverage stats programs that are already built most stats packages this would actually be much faster than the IIS logs because it doesn't touch the disk look for a daily log file on each request just on a scheduled time exactly Steve, where are the Fusedocs in this code?!! Shame on you. ;> lol i wrote this about 8-9 months ago :) there were fusedocs back then Yeh, yeh--THAT'S the ticket! not in my brain So would you continue to use structures, or just log each hit directly into the database? *** firefox has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) and what would be the problem with putting the hit storage in the App_globals file... 1) log each hit to an application scoped query. since it is called with each page request and is not aborted with CFLOCATIONS 2) on a scheduled time (every 5 minutes) dump query to a text file *** gabe has joined #fusebox *** ChanServ sets mode: +v gabe 3) bulk insert the text file into the db 4) refresh the applicaiton query hmmm *** firefox has joined #fusebox users don't do the inserts into the db. only inserts into the application wide query *** ChanServ sets mode: +o firefox seems like a lot of points of failure seems a little complicated appvariable - textfile - db - textfile - statprogram db you would lose count of your action files if you put the hit storage in OnRequestEnd.cfm, because cf_location is like a goto, it skips out on running the OnRequestEnd.cfm *** fusebw has joined #fusebox *** firefox sets mode: +v fusebw *** firefox sets mode: +v fusebw *** ChanServ sets mode: +v fusebw *** fusebw has left #fusebox hmmm. never thought of that. are you sure? yep dang! allaire consultant told me I think overhead would be lowest if: i like the application structure idea 1. Hit tracked on execution of index file, and inserted directly into DB using stored proc 2. template runs every (x) hours, days weeks, etc... creates selected log file format plus, with each insert, you could fire a trigger to calculate certain fields like time taken, etc what do you mean by "time taken"? That's the sequence I see too, Marc. time taken: time user stares at the screen for this page but then you may be logging multiple times per request if the index.cfm is called in another template through cfmodule so that writing out the log file becomes a matter of choosing which format, and running that particular act_(logfileformat).cfm Yes! only if it calls the application through cfmodule right not if it calls an individual template thats troo ...hmmm, this could pretty slick... *** cameronc has quit IRC (Quit: Gotta go.. post the log of this session if anyone has it...) we could just create a standard for this application wide query i got lost on the above multiple hit thing... what's the conclusion on that? from a user/static page standpoint, you don't really care about your action pages then have various types of data dumps still thinking, I think, marc whether it goes to a flat file directly or a db, that doesn't really matter do we care about logging hits to action fuseactions? that don't display anything to the user, just cflocate to another dsp fuseaction? i think so. Damn... dinner's ready Could always include the act_logfile in the application.cfm true! i originally did that. that's a good idea, not in app_globals although you'll see that when it's in the onrequestend you can turn off logging Make page log a choice based on prefix (optoinal) i turn off logging for scheduled pages that run every X minutes what about at the bottom of the index.cfm file? just add a &logging=off as an include, as long as the file is called directly? *** sT|Owned has quit IRC (Client closed connection) &logging=off.... touche. that would work great then you have the duplication when the app modules itself, marc i think the application.cfm with the &logging=off works best ack *** sT|Owned has joined #fusebox *** ChanServ sets mode: +v sT|Owned will application.cfm work to prevent multiple hits? yep yes cool modules don't call it I gotta go eat great ideas guys Cio! what next then marc.... let's have this discussion more another day. *** firefox has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) this has been productive sounds good All interested committee participants e-mail jeff@grokfusebox.com we should do more community driven fusebox apps like this committee... haha yeah. I'll remail to Marc & all. so we can vote Call it what you will... my email address is marc@advantex.net The Stats Thing kbeard2323@hotmail.com ;> please let me know when the next discussion will be on this likewise * mcknzm is also logging all this... so don't worry that you'll miss anything. you're in charge. you make the call me? I'll help with the code You call it, Marc; I'll post it. okay... *** Nat has joined #fusebox *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Nat YOU DA MAN! *** firefox has joined #fusebox *** ChanServ sets mode: +o firefox Steve yes? what is your email address? m@secretagents.com okay nat, you missed a big discussion on fusebox page logging not sure what to do next here... can someone collect email addresses? I'll start some work on this I think I can save the above discussion to a file.